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What's up with the strait 10s discrimination
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Matt (#129193)
AnimeNfo Peasant

Posts: 5
 What's up with the strait 10s discrimination
people who give 10s on post aren't regaurded mostly...

Alright, let me lay the situation down, flat, no curves no bends no nothing, but pure hard factorial maybes.

What is going on with the discrimination on people who give everything 10s?

When I look at any anime on AnimeNfo, and check out the reviews, It seems like no one cares about the guys that gave the anime all 10s..
Radda Radda Radda

I understand that I am guessing that people think that people who give all 10s must be bias in some way? or maybe that they give the anime all 10s then write like 5 sentences describing their life story.... But please, isn't 5 sentences about your life story just as good as the people that care?

But then check out some of the highly rated anime reviews, you see this
8
9
10
9
10

or something like that... ? come on am I the only one the thinks this guy didn't give everything 10s because he didn't want to be instantly judged? Because based on reading the review you would think he wanted to give it all 10s. But he is Smart, and doesn't want to be discriminated!

I for one don't buy animes I don't think is above a 9 (just me). And for the animes I own that I want to review I want to give them all a strait 10s (which I do) but I just know, when people are looking, the
10
10
10
10
10

they get turned away, unless it is some HUGE article...

Just putting that out there

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Stick (#5576)
AnimeNfo Forum Administrator


Posts: 7363
It's a perfect 10 review. If you're going to make a review which has all 10's, you'll have to give good reasoning why you feel it should be given that score in the first place. That's the main reason the vast majority of reviews which give perfect 10's are removed is exactly due to this reason. People feel that they can plop down any number they want and not bother writing up anything of substance to back up their claims.

We're not being discriminatory in anyway to reviewers who decide to give a perfect 10s or even 1's for that matter. All we ask is that if you feel that a particular series you've been watching is worthy of a perfect 10 review, then you have to make the effort in writing why you feel the score you wrote down is justified in the first place. And no, unless those five sentences happen to be pure gold, it's unlikely the review will stay up.

I remember back in the day when we first started doing review moderation. This site was full of perfect 10s with one liners. Mainly because people wanted to get their favorite animes to number 1. All it did was make people go to other websites because they couldn't find a decent review on here.

From then to now, the website is a much more better, cleaner, more legitimate site when it comes to reviews. Granted, no review system is perfect, this being no exception and a few good reviews do slip through the cracks. If you feel that a perfect 10 review has been unjustly removed, please get in contact with the review moderator who deleted it. If you wrote the review, you can at least write something better to justify your score.
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Freddy C (#31563)
AnimeNfo Juggernaut


Posts: 4210
Location: UK
I do agree, I have the same prejudice myself, although I do have one all 10 review, and a all 1 review too.

Oh and btw, it's "straight" not "strait" Wink
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Stick (#5576)
AnimeNfo Forum Administrator


Posts: 7363
Freddy C (#31563) :
I do agree, I have the same prejudice myself, although I do have one all 10 review, and a all 1 review too.

Oh and btw, it's "straight" not "strait" Wink



freddyc, we ask users who aren't review mods themselves not to post in this particular forum.


edit: you know what? scratch what i just said. I'm moving this to the animenfo feedback section so more people can get involved in the discussion.
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Matt (#129193)
AnimeNfo Peasant

Posts: 5
 Agree

Oh yes Stick I do agree with what you are saying entirely.
When I said
:
But please, isn't 5 sentences about your life story just as good as the people that care?

I was being Sarcastic.. Kinda hard when you can't really speak it... myabe I should have done a Rolling Eyes next to it.

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Veleon (#124559)
AnimeNfo Description Editor


Posts: 2410
Location: Michigan
Some people ave different meaning on what a 10 should be worth. Some people think that to get a 10 it has to be perfect, no problems at all with it, it couldn't have been better, it was everthing you expected and more. I don't think that way. I a category a 10 if feel that i have no complaints about it. Some people think that average should be 5. I think average should is about a 7. Due to this difference in what the different numbers mean to different people, some people will never understand why I gave a 10 to the enjoyment category in School Days. Or as to why someone gave an anime a 5 when they onl thought it was average.
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Avalanche (#92065)
AnimeNfo Site Staff


Posts: 3724
Location: Shangri-La
Veleon (#124559) :
some people will never understand why I gave a 10 to the enjoyment category in School Days. Or as to why someone gave an anime a 5 when they onl thought it was average.
Actually with this I can perfectly relate - enjoyment and value are two things which can vary a lot with a person. Some person could have hated Pokemon and give it a 2. At the same time, a person (who was 6-7 years old when it was airing) would give it a 10 because of all the childhood memories associated with the series. So while you found (for your personal reasons) School Days perfection in terms of Enjoyment, it may not be the case for some other person. Value and enjoyment are very subjective things - so I can accept extremities in their numbers.

What I dislike is when this feeling rubs off to other categories. Allow me to elaborate: All reviews have a technical aspect (Animation and Sound), the creative aspect of the series (Story and Character) and the subjective nature (Enjoyment and Value).

When I go to see reviews (especially the reviews which are in the top200 series) - I see people giving some very simple drawn animations a 10/10 on animation. Some reviews says that the animation of Hikaru no Go is 10/10. So where does leave FFVII - Advent Children, 20 out of 10? Cause you just cannot say they are of the same level! So basically, what happens is that the enthusiasm of the reviewer rubs off to other categories and he ends up pushing the other scores as well.

****************
Back to the original post. While I dislike all 10s, they are allowed to remain as long as they are justified. When the reviewer gives a 10 on 10 to animation, he/she must really have strong points as why can't any other series can not have better animation to this one. Hence an all 10 review should be packed with full of support. This hardly happens in case of most reviewers - hence their deletions.

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maxim (#126509)
AnimeNfo Peasant

Posts: 3
Basically, the only two reviews I'd posted in the past had been deleted a few days later. Whether it was a system bug, or something else, I haven't even attempted to write another review. Again, I'm not sure if it's the moderation, or whether it was, in fact, some sort of system bug, but I do know that when an honest opinion (let me stress on the meaning of that word) is written by a person, rather than a bot, it should not be deleted.

The reviews I'd written (which were promptly deleted) were for Death Note and Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

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LoStSouLs (#17272)
AnimeNfo Forum Moderator


Posts: 4094
Location: Texas
truthfully. We would rather have a well written truthful review. If it doesnt meet our standards, be it if the review is too short, or if there wasnt enough reason given why the series got the rating it did, or if it wasnt related to the series at all, we will delete it. You can always find out who the review mod was that deleted it and email them and ask them to undelete it, but we require you to promptly edit it, or it will be deleted again.
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maxim (#126509)
AnimeNfo Peasant

Posts: 3
That may be so, but it doesn't appear that MODs are taking any measures to notify reviewers of review deletes and the reasons for such actions.

What concerns me the most is the fact that deletions seems to be rather inconsistent. There are reviews with perfect scores, yet without clear explanations why the reviewed anime deserved such a high score (short reviews are also rampant). While some reviewers are able to get away with such reviews, other people are not. This practice brings up many questions as to the MODS' motivations and review criteria.

Who knows, perhaps there is indeed some sort of discrimination at hand, where bias plays a big role in which reviews are allowed and which are deleted.

All in all, preventing masses from freely participating in the review process, the review scores in this site end up being rather suspect. I wonder if using IMDB model would create a more just system than the currently utilized one on this site.

As of now, I am certain that many good and unbiased reviewers choose not to participate on this site because of the inconsistent practices/policies of this site. Due to that fact, anime scores seen on this site are very much invalid, and are more biased than reviews on public review sites, and professional review sites.
You can either ignore my comments, or you can try to make it more public-friendly. The longer this site chooses to ignore the pleas of its visitors, the less popular it will be.

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Rosepetals (#42525)
AnimeNfo Site Staff


Posts: 6171
Location: Nowhere and Everywhere
maxim (#126509) :
That may be so, but it doesn't appear that MODs are taking any measures to notify reviewers of review deletes and the reasons for such actions.

What concerns me the most is the fact that deletions seems to be rather inconsistent. There are reviews with perfect scores, yet without clear explanations why the reviewed anime deserved such a high score (short reviews are also rampant). While some reviewers are able to get away with such reviews, other people are not. This practice brings up many questions as to the MODS' motivations and review criteria.

Who knows, perhaps there is indeed some sort of discrimination at hand, where bias plays a big role in which reviews are allowed and which are deleted.

All in all, preventing masses from freely participating in the review process, the review scores in this site end up being rather suspect. I wonder if using IMDB model would create a more just system than the currently utilized one on this site.

As of now, I am certain that many good and unbiased reviewers choose not to participate on this site because of the inconsistent practices/policies of this site. Due to that fact, anime scores seen on this site are very much invalid, and are more biased than reviews on public review sites, and professional review sites.
You can either ignore my comments, or you can try to make it more public-friendly. The longer this site chooses to ignore the pleas of its visitors, the less popular it will be.


Actually, this isn't true.

We have a review notification system that notifies the user when their review is deleted, and there's also a panel in your profile that shows "what" reviews were deleted. You can also check the mod who deleted them. We also implemented a policy that automatically notifies you if your review is "too short".

We've been much more consistent with these changes in the past several months than not for the review system. I'm not sure when your reviews were deleted, but a lot could have changed since the time you wrote your reviews.

If you want, I can personally search myself and tell you what was wrong with your reviews-it may not just have been the all 10s issue, but it doesn't do to take potshots at the mods, we can change our policies, but it's up to you to "work" with us and tell us if you think there's a problem. I'm sure that every single one of the so-called "MODS" you speak of is willing to work with you.

If you really want to know the moderation standards, take a good long look at the criteria in the review forum, this is the standard we go by-other sites are even more strict than what Animenfo has-we actually do allow all 10 reviews (or even all 1s), as long as you substantiate your reasons behind the review itself-your's probably did not, but I'm going to search through and see what the problem is-if you want them restored, that's fine, just say so.

In other words, don't say 10 for the animation, and then the only comment you make is "Amazing." For every statement you make, as a general rule of thumb, it should have a statement that backs it up as to why you rated it that way. Simple as that.

Also I don't think you've been on the review site to see our helpfulness system that was put into play, we also use this to gauge what reviews are helpful to those who write reviews on the site. If you haven't looked into this (if you have, then that's fine), I highly suggest you do so. Please take into consideration that Animenfo itself even is progressively changing, we even want to change.

We also have an open policy for people who request review deletions, if you see reviews in question that don't meet the standards and as you say "are overlooked" don't hesitate to let us know. We're an open review staff, we work so much to look through the database each day, sometimes hours of reading through countless reviews to see if they're helpful or if they substantitate their scores. We're trying to make a fine medium between being a helpful review site and one where you can be free to write as much as you want (or as concisely) about anime. If you think this standard's compromised, then be specific, no offense intended.
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Avalanche (#92065)
AnimeNfo Site Staff


Posts: 3724
Location: Shangri-La
Seriously maxim, thats very harsh on us. Here is your review on LOGH
maxim (#126509) :
One of the most sophisticated stories told via animation. Excellent character development, story, political intrigue.

It feels similar to berserk, as far as some characters go, but berserk is incomplete and lacks depth in other fields.
LOGH offers many interesting and well developed views on philosophy and political regimes.

Here is the meaning of "review":
Oxford :
review
noun
1 a formal assessment of something with the intention of instituting change if necessary. 2 a critical appraisal of a book, play, or other work. 3 a retrospective survey or report. 4 a ceremonial display and formal inspection of military or naval forces.
verb
1 carry out or write a review of. 2 view or inspect again.


So tell me, how does does your LOGH review qualify as one? Because your three lines are not a crtitical appraisal. They are statments without any backing. I can replace the LOGH with Zipang (another political sci-fi work) and have its review ready without much effort. If you can out points which prove that your review is indeed one - I will see to it that it is restored. As for your deathnote review - I possibly do not see why would anyone delete it. It looked absolutely fine to me. Its a bit short but then that would just be me blithering.

Now for your other points - I don't know how many other review mods agree, but atleast I agree with one of your points - we have too many 10/10 ratings. It amazes me to see so many 10/10 ratings on FMA, KGNE, RK:Reminiscence of which a good majority keep babbling the same points over and over again. For KGNE its "It made me cry, the characters are lovely, its so deep, i was so affected for days yada yada yada..." For FMA its "it is so deep. the plot is so good. there are so many themes of death. the characters are so awesome yada yada yada". But as long as they are unique in verbatim, and from different people - we cannot delete them. We can't delete two of such reviews and let one remain because that would be clear discrimination. We have had many discussions in the past on how to prevent this 'paraphrasing' of the same points but everytime we get stumped on how to prevent this. TBH, if you have any suggestions - PLEASE SHARE THEM! In case you find a review which is too short to justify its rating please let us know.

Also, there is no "group of mods" which are biased. Thats just your paranoia acting up. We work seprately, independently. We all log in during various times of the day and work solo. We all have seprate tastes each liking/hating some genre - so even if I do delete some review against which I may be biased against, I'll surely be reprimanded for that by some other mod.

Now as for your other points, Rose has countered them. You are now always notified when your review is deleted. We have also made a system now in which your review cannot be deleted by two different reviewers at different points of time. And you are always welcome to bash us on forums as long as it is kept civil.

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maxim (#126509)
AnimeNfo Peasant

Posts: 3
If what you say is true, then it does seem that many changes have indeed been implemented as of late.
The reviews I had posted were deleted one day later without any explanation and notification. I'm not even here to contend the quality of my reviews, but the way they were deleted, considering that I've seen many similar reviews that were deemed legitimate for whichever reason.
There is no reason for anyone to discriminate against me, given that no one here actually knows who I am. This is why I came up with the bias theory. (Again, I did not think that reviewing criteria was the cause of review deletion, since there were many other reviews for many other anime which were just as short, or perhaps even mundane).

In any case, I am pleased that you have made significant changes in the past year. I suppose I am more liberal in the sense that I'm more for finding ways of allowing more reviews to remain on the site (as long as they are not forms of spamming, or are overly aggressive), rather than ways on how to delete them with more consistency.

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Vortex (#130619)
AnimeNfo Scout


Posts: 252
Location: United Kingdom
I think if you rate everything a 10 then you are not being truely honest with yourself, to review something you have to compare it to other things in that criteria so you can see the highs and lows as nothing is perfect out there !

A review is a opinion but a opinion which should be thought through and compared to other anime which is close to it and think about what makes it good and special, Only then can you truely give it a score Very Happy

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Knowname (#71318)
AnimeNfo Peasant

Posts: 16
maxim (#126509) :
That may be so, but it doesn't appear that MODs are taking any measures to notify reviewers of review deletes and the reasons for such actions.

What concerns me the most is the fact that deletions seems to be rather inconsistent. There are reviews with perfect scores, yet without clear explanations why the reviewed anime deserved such a high score (short reviews are also rampant). While some reviewers are able to get away with such reviews, other people are not. This practice brings up many questions as to the MODS' motivations and review criteria.

Who knows, perhaps there is indeed some sort of discrimination at hand, where bias plays a big role in which reviews are allowed and which are deleted.

All in all, preventing masses from freely participating in the review process, the review scores in this site end up being rather suspect. I wonder if using IMDB model would create a more just system than the currently utilized one on this site.

As of now, I am certain that many good and unbiased reviewers choose not to participate on this site because of the inconsistent practices/policies of this site. Due to that fact, anime scores seen on this site are very much invalid, and are more biased than reviews on public review sites, and professional review sites.
You can either ignore my comments, or you can try to make it more public-friendly. The longer this site chooses to ignore the pleas of its visitors, the less popular it will be.


lol perhaps?? there is no perhaps about it. I'm a very big reviewer on amv.org and, while I do like this site, I just HATE to 'op' on stuff here. Maybe it's a change in vocabulary, maybe I should resign to the fact that a review IS a review, my silly op doesn't mean anything to you guys. ... that's just a tough pill to swallow. And, no, my silly op isn't just 'OMGWTFBBQ! THIS EES SOOOOOR L337!!!!! -oh, and the shipping from Newegg is SOOOO FAST!!'

Nope, not me. Beside Newegg never gets to my house in less than a week (one state away from their warehouse!) so I dunno where this fast shipping aka butt-kissing comes from.

Well anyway yes, the review mod system on this site has ALWAYS bugged me, but it's not as bad as it once was, I live with it... I just wish the timer would quit timing me out! Incisting on detailed ops and leaving a 5 minute timer there is INCREDIBLY moronic. I don't type 50wpm, No way in hell I can do that, 15wpm is more like it. Where's the love for those with physical disabilities? Now I know there's ways around it like writing up a draft in wordpad and copy/ pasting it over. I just don't like that :/. meh, we're a fickle crowd ;p.

But like I said I love this site, it's quite complete and I don't find too many reviews that ARE biased. My usual opinion on an anime is usually the common one, so it's typically redundant o.0 But still, I'd LIEK a more user friendly environment -_- most of us watch anime just for entertainment, we don't want to be 'stuck with the book' after every time we review an anime we like.

And, yes, ALL of my 11 posts are due to complaining about my reviews... Like I said it's MUCH better than how it used to be. At least we get told what reviews were deleted and where now. Though, there are a few animes I tend to like/ dislike that nobody else seems to (I get the feeling that those who disagree like myself get their review deleted like my Monster review was), still 99% of animes with at least 2 reviews seem to be right on with me.

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