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The ending. (spoilers)
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simon (#39337)
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rossoline (#40078) :

That's exactly what I think Anno was trying to say. One of the last scenes of EOE depicts Shinji speaking briefly with his mother and, in so many words, tells her he knows that he hasn't really resolved any of his insecurities and that he still doesn't know where his happiness is. I think he has learned a lot about himself, but whether or not he actually implements that knowledge for his own good is ultimately up to him. Self discovery is only half of the battle. If he doesn't have the will to act on what he has learned the knowledge will be fleeting, like a dream, and he will regress to old habits. We can only hope that he doesn't do so, but I like that it leaves us with hope..


i think he learnt one thing...that the fact he hasn't found happiness doesn't mean he can't live normally...through the serie all characters were searching for happiness, were trying to find answers to their questions and how it ended????(before eps 25,26) ALL OF THEM mentally collapsed...no one found this happiness that they were searching for....so meassage is easy....we can not find answers to all our problems,questions, we can't know everything and so we have to accept the way life goes on...
god...i hope no one said it already Rolling Eyes
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CyBeR (#47560)
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I've seen Haibane Renmei a little while ago and I think it's the other way around:Haibane Renmei has a little of Evangelion in it asking some of the sasme essential questions.Perfect even though it lacks in action.

I don't know if I've said this here but the fact about the EOE is that it's soul wreaking.It's not a happy ending nor a sad one.But it is the ending of everything.That's what makes it uniquer.It re3aches the point when even death is ruled out and it depicts so much pain and knowledge that it takes Evangelion one step further becoming something else that it was ment in the begginig.If that is the vision of a deluded man as I've read once than that means that this world is full of fools.Humanity under a microscope to show its conceptual flaws and errors.That is,in a way,reality.

This is just my opinion on the EOE...there are many more.
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Making love
Until all shall die out and we shall be dragged out of our eternal grave by the wrath of the END, judged and burnt by the light of the Supernova...we shall revive in another world"

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slippy (#46880)
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I've seen Haibane Renmei a little while ago and I think it's the other way around:Haibane Renmei has a little of Evangelion in it asking some of the sasme essential questions.Perfect even though it lacks in action.


Haibane really stood out for me, much much moreso than Lain, Texhnolyze, or Niee, because there's nothing vaguely sci-fi about it. It's really tempting to see Christian symbolism and philosophy in Haibane, obviously due to the angel-wing motifs, as well as the role of Karma and Sin do come up in the show. But I want to back making connections beyond that -- Eva deliberately uses Kabbalistic and Gnostic mythology/symbolism, and so Anno's intentions can certainly be interpreted with Judeo-Christian concepts.

Haibane's really, really special to me. I often view the show as something of an extension of Spirited Away, a movie whose creatures, symbols and motifs whom I felt a very strong existential connection. But unlike Spirited Away, we see the logical conclusions of such a world.

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Vince C (#18927)
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slippy (#46880) :
I didn't find the series complex . . . more like rich with symbols and ideas. The first half of EofE is brutal, but it is brutal (and honest) in the sense that Requiem for a Dream, or Von Trier films are.

The butchering of Asuka is both horrifying and oddly beautiful, the unconscious, animalism, organic of human nature has always been there since the first episode.

I also feel that often people ignore the beautiful, compassionate majesty that is expressed through the 2nd half of EofE. Having passed through the total nihlism of the first half of the movie, we are then asked to view life as the beauty thing that it was, then our "real world" life as it was.

Everywhere in the film you get the feeling Anno was trying to again and again and again express how precious life truly was, how beautiful life was wasted, how we as a whole human race are fallible and beautiful . . . just aching to the extremes of violence and grace to impart this message to us the viewer.

IMO, the film does a good job with its Judeo-Christian symbolism. It differs from traditional philosophy in that it takes a strongly Gnostic view of the world. Its view of God and Life is in other words, heretical and thus the "villains" of the show are heretics against the basic life-affirming morality of most people. But anybody with an existential crisis or even vageuly Buddhist beliefs tend to side with Gnosticism anyway, that evil in this world is preoccupation with it, and that true nirvana is release from it into an ego-less, womb-less existence.

I like to view the film's progression as roughly a sci-fi representation of "ascending" the Kabbalah's Tree of Life from Malkmut to Keter (heaven.) I mean, I was shocked when they exposed Adam as the sci-fi Adam Kadmon . . . it was like, holy crap, Anno is retelling the Kabbalistic version of GENESIS?!?

But Anno takes an existential view of the Tree of Life. Because Shinji will not give up his identity/ego, because he cannot cross Daat/the Void at the end, just as Adam and Eve attained ego from eating the apple, he is "punished" in going back to the new World. But he accepts Kierdekkagard's view (sp?!?) that having an identity, a self, even if you are miserable or overwhelmed by the bodily connection to sin, is better than having no ego at all.


This is by far the deepest anime I have ever seen, and will probably ever see, and Slippy, your views on this series are very close to mine.

However, my perception is that Shinji didn't just get his ego back.. He saw a possibility in changing his personality. While watching the last 4-5 episodes, I began thinking of the author of Eva. He must have endured a very turbulent, yet deep and philosophical, intellectual life. I see this change in Shinji's personality as the source of the author's will to live. The fact that Shinji can change his self remorse into happiness, and instead of running away, change his own perception of himself into something he wants, (which was the world where Asuka wakes him up for school in the morning, and everyhting goes happy), is an indication that the creator is probably thinking the same thing. He can change the views of his wretched life into something pleasant and happy, thereby keeping him alive.

The viewers can also put themselves in Shinji's and the Authors' shoes, and apply the same principle, that life is not what others make it, but it is how one precieves others make it,

I've taken some english literature courses, and not shakespeare, not even sophocles, NOTHING comes closer to describing the meaning of life than this anime series.. Totally amazing! I'm now looking for people to talk in-depth about this series... Know of any good places? Please PM me.

I Haven't seen EofE yet.. I plan to do so the next few days

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CyBeR (#47560)
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Vince C>you've hit me in the head with the last line of the post.Get a few head pills,close your cell phone,pull the curtains because a few days you'll be gone after the EofE.

EofE embodies the essence of Evangelion while at the same time pushes the anime over a new limit and the author's conception becomes clear.One of the best or even the best!
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"We are the undead lovers. Sleep, only sleep. No need for hunting, no need for haunting.
Feed each other with each other's soul.

Just like leeches off one another...to devour the self, to leave the body, exchanging our pleasure and pain in a forever repeating circle
Making love
Until all shall die out and we shall be dragged out of our eternal grave by the wrath of the END, judged and burnt by the light of the Supernova...we shall revive in another world"

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Vince C (#18927)
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I've seen it.. Now i'm totally obsessed....

My main question. What is the significance of the strangling of Asuka?

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simon (#39337)
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Vince C (#18927) :
My main question. What is the significance of the strangling of Asuka?


it meant that Shinji surpassed his weakness....
he showed his anger that he had kept deep inside...
at last he decided to change something...
so that HCP might began...
and if you haven't noticed right after he had strangled Asuka HCP started...
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Last Exile (#35342)
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Didn't the final scene represent that Shinji didn't want to be alone anymore and that Shinji and Asuka were the new Adam and Eve for that level of evolution? After all, that bit before it talked about there always being one representative around to continue with humanity's existence. Shinji hated Asuka for what she did, but she was his only source of not being alone after the evolution, so he couldn't kill her like he did in the dream.

And yeah, the maker was put into a mental asylum. So no wonder it's messed up. Symbolic but messed up.
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Summoner (#35353)
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Well firstly I want to mention that I highly enjoyed reading your great analyses of End of Evangelion, but I want to ask one offtopic question, if it's mentioned somewhere before, then sorry that I was stupid enough to miss it. In Neon Genesis Evangelion series episode 24 near the end Kaworu (last angel) looks at adam and says "No, This is... Lilith?! I see. I understand Lilim now." Then he makes his mind to die. Can anybody tell what does it mean? Why did he call "Adam" the "Lilith" ?
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18th Angel Kabaris (#48699)
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Lilith and Adam

That's actually a very common question... Kwarou is the first to realise that that being on the giant red cross in Terminal Dogma is Lilith, and not Adam. Remember at the end of episode 8? (Asuka Strikes!) when Kaji delivers a briefcase to Gendo? that's Adam, Gendo has him surgically grafted to his hand and Nerv is using Lilith on the cross as a decoy.

Interesting side note: When Kajhi Tells Misato he's going to tell her the truth, and shows her "Adam" on the cross...Lying!
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Enziet (#61509)
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Anime of the 90's

Is it just me or are almost all the anime series that came out of the 90's a little strange. Evangelion, Macross plus, Ghost in the Shell. They are all great anime but they all get very strange towards the end and have very dark conotations.

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Last Exile (#35342)
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Sign of the times? The fact that this generation is more angsty and cynical than those before them?
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Enziet (#61509)
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I suppose. But why then has anime seemingly taken a more light hearted turn in past years? Love Hina, Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu, Fruits Basket, and so on.

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slippy (#46880)
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Is it just me or are almost all the anime series that came out of the 90's a little strange. Evangelion, Macross plus, Ghost in the Shell. They are all great anime but they all get very strange towards the end and have very dark conotations


Nah. Shounen anime imports in the late 80s/early-90s was much darker. Basically all that was getting released in the States was cyberpunk, dystopian works like Akira, GITS, Alita, Patlabor, Bubblegum, Macross, Gundam, Queen Esmerelda, ADV Police, etc. Or fantasy/horror stuff like Record of Lodos Wars or Devil Hunter Yokko. Oh and lots of hentai. Twisted Evil

The new GITS movie and TV series really are anomalies. They're a throwback to that era of anime, one which I miss very much.

:
Love Hina, Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu, Fruits Basket, and so on.


Maybe in the last 3 years have we started seeing a much wider market. More shoujo anime is being released here. More kinds of shounen stuff is being released here. Love Hina wasn't anymore popular in Japan than most other harem shows, but it did monster business in the States. Ergo, now you're seeing more harem-girl (Ai Yori Aoshi), harem-meets-mecha (FMP, Nadesico) and bishoujo stuff (Azumanga, Haibane, World of Narue, etc.) Hell they're even hyping yoai-shows like Gravitation now.

Evangelion marks a different generation of mecha. Shows like Rahxephon, Gasaraki, Argento-soma, and (probably) Saikano are all post-Eva "mecha" shows.

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psyte (#77614)
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Id just like to throw my 2 cents in and say that this anime had the crapyest ending ive ever seen. only a complete moron would be drawn in by the weak philosophical garbage that was barfed out in the last 2 episodes. I thought the overall series was great, and one of the best animes ive ever watched, but the last 2 eps just ruined it. I havent seen the other movies/OVA's yet so im just refering to the actual series. can someone please explain to me why it took 2 whole episodes of random images and flash backs just for shinji to decide weather or not he likes himself? does anyone even care if he likes himself or not? I much rather would have seen what happend to Rei after the final battle. I thought mahoromatic had the worst ending ever, but NGE has deffinatly earned the crown.

*edit*

ok, i just finished watching "The end of evangelion" and that was an awesome ending. although i cant figure out what the animators obession is with random images, i think it really cheapens the anime. exept for the parts in the 2nd half of the movie where its all real life video/randomness, the movie was perfect.

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whytheam (#116498)
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If you put the orignal ending (25 & 26) into EoE it makes alot more sense. There is evidence of this because if you watch 25 & 26, there are small clips of Ritsuko dead in the LCL, Misato dead by the wall, and I think Asuka in Eva 02 at the bottom of the lake. This is also supported in the preview to ep.25 when you watch it verry slowly it shows the story boards of these.

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